IDEAS

Help shape the future of CurseForge!

a Feedback to Curse-Forge and Overwolf (Processes/ Ads and Datamining)

Hello, I took a very close look at the Alpha of your Curse-Client today and found some things in it that personally bother me a lot. I think I am not alone with that.

Overwolf/Curse

On the one hand, it is by no means resource-saving, as you announced, if two programs have to run in your software for one app.

All in all the processes and executed programs are too much. Especially older systems are unnecessarily strained!

Overwolf

In principle, the Overlay/Dock function should not start any processes if it is not activated by the user. I don't understand why you need 5 processes for an overlay! Overlay and also Dock should be completely disableable. Not everybody wants this and it is annoying because it uses resources and space on the screen unnecessarily.

I understand that you want to collect user data, but if you deny this in the setup, it should be switched that way in general and not still partially active in the settings. No means no. This is an interference in the user rights and should be fixed immediately!

To Curse Forge itself:

Addons that should be ignored, because they are updated directly by the provider, should not be displayed as Errors and/or prompted to uninstall/reinstall.

The view should be customizable. The advertising area should be, at least partially, moveable to the right. Advertising is fine, to support the authors, but how big we see it should still be the decision of the users. Again, not everyone has a huge monitor.

Conclusion

Currently the merge to Overwolf for the mod management of WoW is more a step backwards than forward. You promised to make the software better. A promise that is not so easy to realize, because the client was already almost perfect. So far the software is bloated, some unnecessary.

If this does not change, you will surely alienate and lose several users. Unfortunately I had to realize that from then to now nothing really changed in the policy of the company. Therefore I have to assume that there will be no reaction or only general promises without changes.

  • Alex Nemesis
  • Oct 21 2020
  • Planned
  • Attach files
  • Firstname Lastname commented
    4 May 04:08pm

    Just read through comments.


    Zero said from Overwolf on why do they need two aps to launch one game, nor why does their app need 9 (NINE!) processess to just be sit there doing nothing but hogging on memory like some Chromish parasite it actually is.


    Guys, I udnerstand that Electron is a fancy modern buzzword tech for lazy people who can do only JS and still call themselves "programmers", but Cthulhu damn it, NINE processes!?

  • Alex Nemesis commented
    27 Oct, 2020 03:51pm

    English (The German part is further down)

    Thanks for the feedback

    It's nice to see that you respond to parts of my ideas and concerns.

    Unfortunately not yet as much as I would like and of course I know that there is no miracle software that takes into account everything I want as a user.

    Thanks also for the invitation to the Discord. I just think that the language barrier will be crucial. Nevertheless I want to give it a chance.

    You don't understand my concern about the loading speed of the app as I would like it to.

    It's not about comparing the speed of loading CF with other apps on the OW family, but to look around in general. There are many alternatives for your app. These are independent, do not include any additional software and ultimately offer the same features. Most importantly, they offer the features that we gamers want.

    In comparison, a solution based on 2 programs will always be slower. And you already notice the differences in loading between the 0.25 and 0.27 version. It may only be seconds, but it is noticeable. Because the ballast of CF, Overlay and Co is dragged along.

    You can see that when you start CF, first the teaser window has a long loading bar, then the main window is started and then the rest is loaded. Each loading process has its own loading bar. In my case this is already almost 20 seconds. Before that the app was already loaded after 10 seconds.

    What happens if the advertisement has to be reloaded then. Especially with a video of possibly several minutes?

    An additional software for gamers should not only, it must be light, fast and functional. Otherwise it loses acceptance. And your software is already struggling with that. Probably also from the past.

    No gamer has desire or time, just before the start of the game, nor eternities felt that an advertising video is loaded, or an unnecessary application.

    It is not only about removing (being able to remove) the art window. It's about the fact that it currently takes up almost 1/3 of the window - without scaling. And that is too much. Make this window 50% scalable for everyone, free of charge, and less annoying. Not everyone has a 32 inch monitor where this area is no longer a hindrance (I suppose).

    (German Part)

    Danke für die Rückmeldung

    Es ist schön zu sehen das Sie auf Teile meiner Ideen und Sorgen eingehen.

    Leider noch nicht so ganz wie ich es mir wünschen würde und natürlich ist mir klar das es keine Wunder Software gibt die all das Berücksichtigt was ich mir als Anwender wünsche.

    Danke auch für die Einladung ins Discord. Ich denke nur das die Sprachbarriere da entscheidend sein wird. Dennoch möchte ich dem eine Chance geben.

    Sie verstehen meine Sorge was die Ladegeschwindigkeit der App betrifft noch nicht wie ich es mir wünsche.

    Es geht nicht darum die Geschwindigkeit des Ladens von CF mit anderen Apps auf der OW Familie zu vergleichen, sondern sich allgemein umzusehen. Es gibt für ihre App viele Alternativen. Diese sind unabhängig, beinhalten keine zusätzliche Software und bieten letztlich die gleichen Funktionen. Vor allem aber die Funktionen die wir Gamer uns wünschen.

    Im Vergleich dazu wird eine Lösung die auf 2 Programme basiert immer langsamer sein. Und man merkt die Ladeunterschiede zwischen der 0.25er und 0.27er Version bereits jetzt. Es sind vielleicht nur Sekunden, aber es ist spürbar. Weil eben der Balast von CF, Overlay und Co mitgeschleppt wird.

    Das ist gut daran zu erkennen, das wenn man CF startet erst das Teaser Fenster einen recht langen Ladebalken mitbringt, dann das Hauptfenster gestartet wird und dann tatsächlich der Rest dazu geladen wird. Jeder Ladevorgang bringt einen eigenen Ladebalken mit. Bei mir macht das jetzt schon fast 20 Sekunden aus. Vorher war die App nach 10 Sekunden bereits geladen.

    Was ist erst, wenn dann noch die Werbung nachgeladen werden muss. Gerade bei einem Video von evtl mehreren Minuten?

    Eine Zusatzsoftware für Gamer sollte nicht nur, sie muss leicht, schnell und funktional sein. Sonst verliert sie Akzeptanz. Und damit tut sich Ihre Software, bereits jetzt schwer. Wohl auch aus der Vergangenheit heraus.

    Kein Gamer hat Lust oder Zeit, kurz vor Spielbeginn, noch gefühlte Ewigkeiten das ein Werbevideo geladen ist, oder eine unnötige Applikation.

    Es geht nicht nur darum das Kunstfenster zu entfernen (zu können). Es geht darum das es derzeit fast 1/3 des Fensters einnimmt - ohne Skalierung. Und das ist zu viel. Machen sie dieses Fenster um 50 % skalierbar für alle, kostenfrei, und es ist weniger störend. Nicht jeder hat einen 32 Zoll Monitor wo diese Fläche nicht mehr behindert (Vermutlich).

  • Admin
    Team Overwolf commented
    27 Oct, 2020 11:22am

    sound off, video ads and banners.
    we have explained some of the topics recently in one of our newsletter

    With other apps there is no noticeable slowing of the system, and we can expect the same for CF. I think you raise some interesting point and I have set them up in our internal feature requests and bug logs, so there are things that might change, based on priority and viability. This includes optimizations, removing unnecessary processes etc.

    Removing the art window will be a subscribers option at this time.


    While language barriers are an obstacle, we are very much discussing with as many communities possible and the people that reach out, here or otherwise.
    There is currently a discord channel dedicated to the new app, I think everyone would benefit from you thoughts there as well, and I welcome you to join the conversations there if you like https://discord.gg/VakuZRa

    As per our values - you can read more about Overwolf in our about us page. I hope you give the new app a chance and see if there are things that you think can be done to improve your experience.

    thank you once again!

  • Alex Nemesis commented
    27 Oct, 2020 09:29am

    English Part

    First of all I would like to apologize for the late reaction.

    As well as for my bad english, so sometimes it takes me a bit longer to answer.

    I have decided to post the topic in German as well, hoping that more people will participate,

    Do I now understand that you are only addressing the topic of art and that this is only for subscribers? Then you have not understood my request here correctly. In principle, it should be possible to scale the art window, for everyone and free of charge. A remaining width may remain. Otherwise the adframe is meaningless.

    I wonder how slow the program will be, if there is still advertising to be loaded. It is already not the fastest.

    By the way - what kind of advertisement are we talking about? Standing graphics? Gifs or something else?

    The unnecessary processes, the obligation to run 2 programs although one would be enough, the unwanted overlay, the many browser processes, the data collection that is not properly set up and not really transparent (which is transferred into diagnostic and usage data) - all this will stay like this? Examined, but will it stay that way?

    That would be disappointing and predictably disappointing.

    You have promised in your announcement that you want to make the client efficient and fast, better and more transparent. Less crammed with unnecessary.... and then do not do exactly this. On the contrary!

    Here it is not about any PoV (again, stay transparent) but simply about not keeping a promise. A promise is a matter of honor. Earning money should not be the only thing that matters.

    If you ask around, especially in German-speaking countries, a lot of your software is rather negative at the moment. Don't just collect statistics, ask people personally. In WoW groups on FB they are already talking about it.

    Exactly for the reasons I have already told you several times. Because these things have been criticized in the past.

    I can see that you will have massive problems here. So I beg you not to destroy a good idea with unnecessary ones. Twitch has already done a lot wrong - please don't make it worse.

    Deutscher Part

    Zunächst ein mal möchte ich mich für die späte Reaktion entschuldigen.

    Ebenso wie für mein schlechtes englisch, weswegen ich manchmal etwas länger benötige um zu antworten.

    Ich habe mich entschlossen das Thema auch in deutsch zu hinterlegen, in der Hoffnung das mehr Leute sich daran beteiligen,

    Verstehe ich jetzt richtig das Sie von allem was ich jetzt moniert habe nur das Thema des Kunstbereichs in Angriff nehmen und das auch nur für Abonenten? Dann haben Sie mein Anliegen hier nicht richtig verstanden. Es sollte prinzipiell, für alle und kostenfrei, möglich sein das Kunstfenster zu skallieren. Eine Restbreite darf ja gerne bleiben. Sonst ist ja das Adframe sinnfrei.

    Wobei ich mich schon frage wie langsam das Programm noch werden wird, wenn auch noch Werbung nachgeladen werden muss. Das schnellste ist es ja jetzt schon nicht.

    Nebenbei gefragt - von welchem Werbungstyp sprechen wir hier eigentlich? Stehende Grafiken? Gifs oder etwas anderes?

    Die unnötigen Prozesse, die Pflicht 2 Programme laufen zu lassen obwohl eines reichen würde, das unerwünschte Overlay, die vielen Browser-Prozesse, die Datensammlung die sich nicht richtig einstellt und nicht wirklich transparant ist (was zb exakt in Diagnose- und Nutzungs-Daten übertragen wird) - das alles wird so bleiben? Zwar untersucht aber bleibt so?

    Das wäre enttäuschend und zwar vorhersehbar enttäuschend.

    Sie haben in Ihrer Ankündigung versprochen das Sie den Client effizent und schnell machen wollen, besser und transparanter. Weniger vollgestopft mit unnötigem.... und tun dann doch genau dieses nicht. Im Gegenteil!

    Hier geht es nicht um irgendwelche PoV (auch hier wieder, bleiben Sie transparent) sondern schlicht um die nicht Einhaltung eines Versprechens. Ein Versprechen ist Ehrensache. Geld zu verdienen sollte nicht allein im Fordergrund stehen.

    Wenn man sich, auch gerade im deutschsprachigem Raum mal umhört, stehen sehr viele Ihrer Software im Moment eher ablehnend gegenüber. Erheben sie nicht nur Statistiken, fragen Sie die Leute mal persönlich. In WoW-Gruppen auf FB wird sich jetzt schon darüber ausgelassen.

    Eben aus genau den Gründen die ich Ihnen bereits mehrfach genannt habe. Weil diese Dinge bereits in der Vergangenheit kritisiert wurden.

    Ich sehe es kommen das Sie hier massive Probleme bekommen werden. Daher bitte ich Sie inständig eine gute Idee nicht mit unnötigem zu zerstören. Twitch hat schon vieles falsch gemacht - machen Sie es bitte nicht noch schlimmer.

  • Admin
    Team Overwolf commented
    22 Oct, 2020 08:38am

    thanks for that -
    Perhaps I can share some of the internal process as well -
    When reviewing your comment, I broke it down to several feature requests and improvements for us to examine.
    As an example - 'Allow user privacy preferences within the install process, (not after)'

    We accept any criticism especially when there is a pin-point that we can improve or change. Those are the point I've logged in from our end.
    Not all user requests and concerns are viable from product and business POV, although we do discuss and challenge ourselves to examine those as well and perhaps try to come with solutions for the core question.

    In the case of resizing the window for example, a solution we have is that subscribers will be able to toggle the art area on and of.

    to run through the rest - run time, process optimization were also logged and will be examined.

    thank you again for the valuable feedback!

  • Alex Nemesis commented
    21 Oct, 2020 03:39pm

    Hello, first of all I would like to thank you for your answer - even if, as I suspected, it is again very general and not very meaningful.

    To summarize and make it more understandable what it is about, because apparently you did not understand me correctly.

    1.) Not making a dock visible is not the same as switching off the dock completely.

    2.) An overlay that is just as "invisible" is not switched off! It continues to run in the background as shown in the screenshot.

    Why should something like this run, even if only in the background, if the user neither wants it to nor actively switches it on? It costs unnecessary resources. No matter how little that may be.

    Yes, you can set the privacy settings. But you have to install it before you can do so. However, only with a new installation data collection services remain active, which must be switched off manually. Even if you told us during the installation that you do not want to collect data.

    Privacy policy or shortcut (after Overwolf itself, not native) back and forth. If you say that you don't want to have data collected, then you have to respect that. This also includes usage and diagnostic data. This should be corrected urgently on your part. As already said: If I do not give my consent to collect data - then this is to be respected. To collect user data via the main program contradicts everything you have stated to be. Honest, fair and transparent.

    Yes you want to continue CF as a dependent app within OW. I understand that - but this is exactly one of the points I criticize. It is irrational 9! to start processes for the task of a process. Why are the .exe not kept and started natively?

    For what does Overwolf, running alone in the background, need 6 browser windows? Why is a process overlay running when I neither used it nor want to use it?

    It does not matter if these 9 processes use less resources than the alternative. The less the better! And this applies to resources and processes/services. This is what I, as a user, expect when someone says they can and want to make a program "better"!

    What is the point of resizing an entire window if I only want to reduce or change an area? The only answer is: nothing.

    Let the user decide how big the art window should be. Individually. Or is it too much of a challenge to make the area scalable?

    Now would be a good time to clarify these circumstances and improve them accordingly. In retrospect, this will only take more time, work and frustration.

    I sincerely hope that you perceive and accept this criticism as what it is meant to be. Constructive. And I hope that more users and addon developers will test it and maybe see it as I do.

  • Admin
    Team Overwolf commented
    21 Oct, 2020 11:58am

    Hey, thanks for the feedback. This is a mixed bag, I'll try to get to the important bits that are relevant for CF, you can also add your feedback to the OW platform in general in the relevant idea portal.

    Dock - you can disable it in the General Settings on Overwolf

    We allow a direct access from CF to the OW privacy setting. There is an explanation how to do so in the first time user windows when you open the app for the first time, or simply head over to Settings>Privacy.
    If you encountered a case that you toggled off data collection and it somehow toggled back on, kindly contact us through the the apps help desk area and open a ticket.

    CurseForge will continue as a dedicated app on the Overwolf platform.
    If you could send us a screenshot of the system resources (task manager should do just great for that), we can check this in more detail.
    So far in our internal checks and from external feedback there was not excessive strain on the system and the software was reported to be equal (or less consuming) when compared with Twitch.

    The art area including the ad are fixed in size. you can maximize manually change the size of the window otherwise.

    The error sign is part of work in progress towards correct detection and display of 'working projects' and other fingerprinting issues. We hope to have this figured out within the next few iterations as it requires access to the back end as well (expected End of November)


    We are working hard to improve the software. thank you for testing our alpha version, we hope you continue checking the progress as we reach the feature parity version ('release').